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Originally Posted by Sinistah View Post
Underlines: Proof that you're a scrub.
Bolds: What makes you an idiot. The game consists of two outcome possibilities: Win or lose. The shovel restricts neither. Also, a single replay doesn't prove ANYTHING whatsoever. For all you know, I might have beaten him 30 times before that. Either way, he proved shovels can be beaten. So beat them. Get over it.

I'm not going to even bother responding to idiotic posts from scrubs who think shovel is "cheap" or "unfair". Back up your reasoning with pure logic and I might give a shit. I'm not going to even bother to try and be modest anymore.

User infracted (insulting other members). ~apple

Calling someone a scrub is an insult, so don't be upset about that infraction. Don't take it personal. You could have asked for some back up reasoning before insulting me.

A single replay does indeed prove nothing. But I know siku. You didn't beat him 30 times before. Maybe if you weren't shoveling but assuming that's all you do, you didn't.

Of course you either win or lose. But there is a difference on how you win/lose. Let me use an exaggerated example:
If I use instagib and my opponent doesn't, it is not making me more skilled or a better player if I keep winning. It gets only more embarassing if I lose.
True skill is shown when you pull off stuff others couldn't. Shoveling can be done by everyone (I guess you can agree that everyone can do a predetermined move). And at least from what I've seen, you are allowed to proove me wrong, there is not much skilled involved in getting the dude out of the ring once he is lifted. And if the shovel failed it is rather unusual they do a comeback and still win (due to lack of players skill).

When I said it restricts gameplay and removes possibilities I meant the movements of the players are getting very restricted due to the torsograb (if you are a 'good' shoveler you are going for torsograbs). I don't hate shovels because I'm not able to beat them or they are hard to beat at all. I hate them because they restrict the movements so much. All shoveled matches are almost the same. Of course I could use a shovel counter every turn and win almost every time. But that doesn't involve any fun. What interests me in aikido are the possibilities how you can deal with different moves. Mostly by improvising my first move and looking how I can exploit the flaws in my opponents move.